Daily Archives: April 29, 2010

Le Coran est-il pour le Mariage des Jeunes Filles qui n'ont pas eu la Menstruation?

On dirait que oui base sur la SOURATE 65:4.La SOURATE 65 s’appelle AL-TALAQ(le divorce).Cela commence ainsi,65:1:” Ô Prophète ! Quand vous répudier les femmes, répudiez-les conformément à leur période d’attente prescrite; et comptez la période.”

SOURATE 65:4:

“Si vous avez:
1.Des DOUTES à propos (de la période d’attente) de vos femmes qui N’ESPERENT PLUS AVOIR DE REGLES, leur délai est de 3 MOIS.
2.De même pour celles qui n’ont pas encore de règles.
3.Et quant à celles qui sont enceintes, leur période d’attente se terminera à leur accouchement.”

La traduction musulmane ici dit “encore”(“qui n’ont pas encore de regles”)mais en arabe le “encore” n’est pas present.Mais il y a des bonnes raisons pour l’interpreter ainsi.L’accent est sur si la femme est ENCEINTE.
http://oumma.com/coran/afficher.php?NumSourate=65

ET QUOI?

1.Si un mari DOUTE que la femme est vraiment dans la MENOPAUSE,qu’on attend 3 MOIS.Pourquoi?Pour voir si son estomac devient GROS a cause d’etre ENCEINTE.

2.S’il doute que la femme est vraiment SANS MENSTRUATION(le cas d’une femme qui a 6,7,8,11 ans),qu’on attend 3 MOIS.Pour voir si elle est enceinte.

NOTE:il y a des arguments contre cette idee,mais ils ne peuvent pas convaincre a 100% que 65:4 ne fait pas reference aux filles qui n’ont pas encore eu la menstruation.On dira plus a l’egard sur ces contre-arguments des musulmans.

UNE VIDEO INTERESSANTE:
“Le coran est un livre de guerre”(2006)regarde a youtube par plus de 141.000.
C’est son avis,du philosophe francais ALAIN FINKIELKRAUT.Oui,il est pour l’existence d’Israel et juif,et quoi?Il est modere,il est raisonnable,mais il est hai par beaucoup de musulmans,on ne sait pas pourquoi.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCrwSJMGkRQ

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More on Sura 65:4 and Pre-Puberty Wives

I began on this in:
http://www.avraidire.eu/2010/04/is-the-koran-in-favor-of-having-pre-puberty-wives/

SURA 65:4:
“And for those of your women who have despaired of menstruation, if you have a doubt, their prescribed time will be three months, and of those too who have NOT had their courses; and for the pregnant women, their prescribed time is till they give birth.”

NO WAITING PERIOD IF NO SEXUAL RELATIONS BEFORE A DIVORCE

How do we know 65:4 refers to 3 MONTHS to see if she is PREGNANT?Because in SURA 33:49 it says to divorce a woman you have NOT TOUCHED(no sexual relations) you do NOT have to wait anything.

SURA 33:49:
“Oh you who believe! If you wed believing women and DIVORCE them BEFORE you have TOUCHED THEM, then there is NO waiting period. But content them and release them handsomely.”
http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/quran/033.qmt.html

ANALYSIS
Taking “those who have NOT had menstruation” as pre-puberty wives then since they have to wait (divorce not immediate like in 33:49)it means there was a sexual relation.

KRISTINALOVESJESUS AND HER VIDEO ON THE SYNOPTICS WRITTEN BEFORE 70 AD
I had argued in favor of it before.She is a 20 year old girl who has important things to say:

INTERNAL EVIDENCE IN FAVOR:
1.LUKE-ACTS ends in 61 AD with PAUL still alive.In ACTS 21/then 27-28 the author begins saying WE and US:he becomes Paul’s companion.
2.The consensus(at least 95% agreement) of scholars is LUKE-ACTS/ MATT came 10 years AFTER MARK.
3.That puts MARK at 51 AD.
4.The Synoptics(Matt,Luke,Mark) all have a NOT NAMED man cutting an ear the night Jesus was arrested(Matt 26:51/Mark 14:47/Luke 22:50).Later JOHN(90 AD) tells us it was SIMON PETER(John 18:10).Why?To not get PETER,one of the 3 top church leaders(with PAUL and JAMES),into trouble.In 61 AD he was STILL alive(killed by Emperor NERO in 64 AD).
5.The technical reason scholars put MARK at 70 AD at EARLIEST is because prophecies are impossible and they have Jesus prophesizing the destruction of the TEMLE(Mark 13:1-2/Matt 24:1-2/Luke 21:56)and JERUSALEM(Luke 13:33-35/Luke 19:41-44/Matt 23:37-39).

MISSING HISTORY
If ACTS is from 80-85 AD(it’s a history of church AFTER Jesus)then WHY omit:
1.Death of JAMES,head of Jerusalem church)in 62 AD.To show he was sincere.
2.Death of PETER and PAUL in 64 AD.To prove they weren’t charlatans.
3.Mention of fulfillment of Jesus’ prophecy(Temple-Jerusalem).To show he was a real prophet.
Why omit 20-25 years?No real answer.

HER VIDEO “All NT Books written Prior to 100 AD”:
She makes a comparison:she gives modern PARALLELS using PEARL HARBOR and the WORLD TRADE CENTER(people writing histories of it and not mentioning them):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qR_f_veY11k

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Was Jesus for Killing Apostates?

In Muslim literature they say yes.Their argument is flawed.No taking into account the CONTEXT of Jesus’ time.

Mosaic Law and Non-Jews

Muslim writers always ignore that Jews say Mosaic Law is ONLY for Jews,99% of people are excluded.Mosaic law has some 12 cases for application of the death penalty.

1.The Book of Jubilees (2nd century BC)

In JUBILEES 7:20-28 is the first statements of the laws God wants for non-Jews(there is no death penalty there).

2.Acts 15(Council of Jerusalem decision about laws for non-Jewish followers of Jesus):

There is no death penalty.

3.The 7 Noahide Laws (500 AD in the Talmud)

It is for non-Jews,there is no death penalty.

MUSLIM ARGUMENT:”Christians have to OBEY MOSAIC LAW since Jesus followed it.”

Lack of knowledge of basic Judaism.Jesus and any other Jew would have said:”It doesn’t apply for non-Jewish followers of me.”

DEATH PENALTY RIGHT TAKEN AWAY(from Jewish leaders):

1.The Talmud(500 AD)

It is later but contains very old info says when Palestine became a real Roman colony in 6 AD the RIGHT to CAPITAL PUNISHMENT was taken away.

2.John 18:31

It confirms this. The Jewish leaders wanted to kill Jesus but couldn’t,they told PILATE they couldn’t apply the death sentence.

3.The Jewish Antiquities

JOSEPHUS says JAMES(half-brother of Jesus) was illegally killed by the High Priest.For that the Roman governor deposed him.

4.The only exception

It was if a non-Jew entered the Temple,an inscription with this exception found in 1871(it appears mentioned in Josephus).

4 GROUPS OF JEWS IN 1ST CENTURY PALESTINE:

1.The Zealots

They were ultranationalists,very violent,considered world’s first TERRORISTS(they even killed priests).

2.The Pharisees

They accepted the OT and ORAL LAW(the idea that on Mt.Sinai God gave Moses a WRITTEN LAW(Mosaic Law) and an ORAL one,passed on for centuries,till written down in 180 AD as the MISHNA).

3.The Sadducees

They only accepted the Pentateuch(first 5 books of OT),rejected the Oral Law,rejected RESURRECTION of DEAD(when dead that was it,no afterlife,no resurrection).

4.The Essenes

An ascetic group,numbered 4,000 according to Josephus.

So?

So MORE than 20 YEARS before Jesus began his career the Jews didn’t execute anybody.

FOLLOW THE PHARISEES

He would NOT have said:”Kill X apostate” in his 3 year career,or in his 33 years of life.Why?MATT 23:2-3 has Jesus say:””The TEACHERS of the LAW and the PHARISEES sit in the SEAT of MOSES(NOTE:they CORRECTLY interpret how and when to APPLY Mosaic Law).

So you must OBEY them and do ALL they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.”

So?

It’s a fact the PHARISEES had the policy of:”Obey the Romans,they have taken away our right to apply the death sentence in 6 AD.We will NOT obey some 12 Mosaic laws that have it.”

TWO GREATEST PHARISEES

They were HILLEL and YOHANNAN BEN ZAKKAI.One lived 1 generation before Jesus,the other after him.Both were flexible and even eliminated a law from Mosaic Law due to circumstances,using a legal fiction invented by HILLEL called PROSBUL(or prozbul).

About the Great Hillel

HILLEL is famous for saying:”Do NOT do others what you do NOT want them to do to you.That is the TORAH,the rest is commentary.”And also:”If I am NOT for MYSELF then WHO will be for me.If I am ONLY for MYSELF,then what am I?If not now,then when?”In Judaism he is considered the GREATEST Jewish teacher between 537 BC-70 AD.

About Zakkai

Considered the saviour of Judaism and he who began the new age called Rabbinic Judaism(time of the rabbis,sucessors of the Pharisees).He escaped from Jerusalem when it was besieged by the Romans in 70 AD.He pretended to be dead,was taken out in a coffin.Appearing before VESPASIAN(and having nothing to lose)he prophesized he would be the next emperor.He did and as a reward was allowed to start an academy where he laid the foundation for the existence of Judaism without the Temple.

In Addition

The SADUCCEES were for the LITERAL application of the Mosaic Law that said “an eye for an eye,a tooth for a tooth”.The Pharisees said it meant:”The VALUE of an eye for an eye,etc.”So Jesus was with them on that.

EXCEPT FOR ORAL LAW

The PHARISEES accepted the ORAL LAW.Jesus,from what is in the NT,rejected it.In the SERMON on the MOUNT in MATTHEW:

Jesus says “You have HEARD(NOTE:seems to mean the Oral Law)but I say to you”(Matthew 5:21/ 5:27/ 5:31-32/ 5:33-34/ 5:38-39/ 5:43-44.We also have:

The Traditions of Men

MATT 15:1-9 Jesus denounces the Pharisees for TRADITION not part of Mosaic Law(Oral Law):

The Text

“Then some PHARISEES and TEACHERS of the LAW came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked,”Why do your disciples break the TRADITION of the ELDERS? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!”
Jesus replied, “And why do you BREAK the COMMAND of God for the sake of YOUR TRADITION(Oral Law)?

For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’and ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.’
But you say that if a man says to his father or mother, ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,’he is not to ‘honor his father’ with it. Thus you NULLIFY the word of God for the sake of your TRADITION.

You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:” ‘These people honor me with their lips,but their hearts are far from me.They worship me in vain;their teachings are but RULES TAUGHT by MEN.”

What?

Reality check:

1.Matthew 23:2-3 has Jesus tell the PEOPLE to OBEY ALL the PHARISEES say since they have the SEAT of MOSES(authority on Mosaic Law).

2.The Pharisees said:”Obey the Romans,they took away our right to apply the death sentence in 6 AD,we won’t apply some 12 Mosaic laws that have it.”

3.Jesus agreed.

MUSLIM ARGUMENT:”The following shows Jesus said “KILL children who CURSE their PARENTS,as MOSAIC LAW says”(MATT 15:2-7):

“And why do you BREAK the COMMAND of God for the sake of YOUR TRADITION(Oral Law)?

For God said:
1.’Honor your father and mother’and

2.’Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.'”

It is True

Those 2 laws are there.Muslims say:”Jesus was saying:”APPLY the DEATH sentence.”NO,otherwise he would 100% contradict himself in MATT 23:2-3.

HIS MAIN POINT WAS:

It’s in HIS OWN EXPLANATION/INTERPRETATION of what he meant given in the next phrase:

“But YOU(note:Pharisees) say that if:

1.A man says to his father or mother, ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is a gift devoted to God,’he is NOT to ‘honor his father(NOTE:X Mosaic law)’ with it.

Thus you NULLIFY the word of God(NOTE: X Mosaic law to honor parents) for the sake of your TRADITION.”

WHAT?

The MOSAIC LAW that was NULLIFIED by the TRADITION of the PHARISEES(Oral Law?)and to which Jesus OBJECTED was ONLY:”not respecting Mosaic Law”honor father and mother.””THAT Mosaic law says NOTHING about a DEATH PENALTY.

Nowhere in his OBJECTION does he say:”Your TRADITION says he is NOT to “honor his father” AND NOT to “kill he who insults parents.”
Jesus accepted the Pharisees position on obeying the Romans.Corroborative evidence is:

GIVE TO CEASER WHAT IS CEASER’S,TO GOD WHAT IS GOD’S(LUKE 20:25/MATT 22:21/MARK 12:17)

Jesus confirms “separation of synagogue and state”.It’s a historical fact the Pharisees said:”Obey the Romans,no capital punishment.”

WOMAN CAUGHT IN ADULTERY(JOHN 8:1-11)

It was not originally in JOHN.But was added later.Yet most scholars believe it is an authentic oral tradition,or that it’s highly probable.They try to trick Jesus with “should we stone her?”A TRICK since:

1.If he said YES they would have DENOUNCED him to the Romans:”He BROKE the Roman law against a Jew applying the death sentence.”

2.If he said NO they would say:”He is saying to disobey Mosaic law.”

Matthew 5:17-20:

1.”Do NOT think that I have come to ABOLISH the LAW or the PROPHETS; I have not come to abolish them but to FULFILL them.

2.I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, NOT the SMALLEST LETTER, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the LAW until ALL is FULFILLED.

3.Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN(NOTE:really Kingdom of God,but Matthew didn’t want to say “God”), but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

4.For I tell you that unless your RIGHTEOUSNESS SURPASSES that of the PHARISEES and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.”

What did Jesus mean?

The way I see it like this:it says he came NOT to abolish the LAW and the PROPHETS but to FULFILL them,and it will remain valid till ALL is FULFILLED.

ALL FULFILLED of what?First,he said he came to FULFILL the LAW and PROPHETS.The “law”or TORAH refers to Mosaic Law(613 rules) and is also used to mean the PENTATEUCH(first 5 books of OT),which has Mosaic Law in it.
The Pentateuch and the Prophets have prophecies about the FIRST and the SECOND coming of the Messiah.The “till ALL is fulfilled” refers to the prophecies of teh FIRST coming.

The Kingdom of God

MATT 23:2-3 and MATT 22:21 have Jesus accept the Pharisees position on obeying Roman law(which meant disobeying some 12 Mosaic laws).MATT 5 is by the SAME author.Either he has Jesus utterly contradict himself or the KINGDOM of GOD is NOT 1st century Palestine.Jesus says:”In an ideal society,where God rules(Kingdom of God)if you disobey the least rule you do wrong.But I take the position of the Pharisees,some laws are inapplicable in this situation(note:like HILLEL and ZAKKAI also concluded,they were flexible like Jesus.)”

Corroboration

He says the way the Pharisees are in conduct,not application of Mosaic law,makes it hard for them to ENTER the KINGDOM of GOD.This proves 100% Jesus is talking of an IDEAL situation,not that of 1st century Palestine.

In reality Muslims cherrypick and ignore info that is vital.

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Argument pour Confirmer que Jesus fut mis dans un tombeau et pas jete dans une Fosse Commune destinee aux Criminels

JOSEPH D’ARIMATHEE

Les evangiles disent qu’un homme nommé Joseph d’Arimathee fut celui qui a placé le corps de Jesus dans une caverne,qui servait comme un tombeau.JOHN DOMINIC CROSSAN est un ex-pretre catholique,irlandais, qui a fondé le groupe tres sceptique appelé le JESUS SEMINAR en 1985.

Pour lui et pour beaucoup d’autres Jesus NE fut PAS placé dans une caverne,c’est une INVENTION.Il fut mit sous terre,parce que “la coutume de l’epoque etait de mettre les corps des criminels crucifies sous la terre,dans une FOSSE COMMUNE.”C’est vrai.

Mais,tout de meme

En 1968 on a decouvert un OSSUAIRE(ou boite pour contenir des ossements)avec le nom YEHOHANAN.Dedans il y avait les os d’un homme CRUCIFIE,avec un CLOU dans le talon.C’etait la PREMIERE fois qu’on a trouvé de l’evidence ARCHEOLOGIQUE d’un homme crucifié.

Alors?

On a:

1.Il etait un homme qui avait environ 28 ans,et qui est mort appoximativement a la MEME periode historique que Jesus.

2.Il avait eté tué et enseveli a JERUSALEM,comme Jesus.

3.Il avait eté condamné comme un CRIMINEL,comme Jesus.

4.Alors la coutume y etait de mettre les criminels crucifiés SOUS la TERRE,dans une FOSSE COMMUNE.

5.Malgré ca,Yehohanan fut placé dans une CAVERNE,dans un TOMBEAU,en suivant la coutume religieuse,comme c’est qui est decrit pour Jesus.

Pour un peu plus d’information

http://compusat.tripod.com/croix3fr.htm

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Argument in favor of Jesus being Placed in a Tomb and not in a Common Grave for Criminals

About Joseph of Arimathea

The gospels say a man called Joseph of Arimathea put Jesus’ body in a new tomb,in a cave.There is John Dominic Crossan,ex-Catholic priest,Irish,is a cofounder of the very skeptical Jesus Seminar in 1985.For him and many others:

1.Jesus was NOT put in a cave,a tomb,it is an invention.

2.Jesus was put under ground.

They say:”The custom then was to put crucified criminels under the ground, in a common grave“.It is true.Yet we have the case of:

Yehohanan

In 1968 was discovered an ossuary(bone-box)with the word Yehohanan.In it were the bones of a crucified man,with the nail on his ankle,the first time one had archeological evidence of a crucifixion.

So?

We have:

1.He was a man about 28 who died at around the same time period as Jesus.

2.He was killed and buried in Jerusalem,like Jesus.

3.He had been condemned as a criminal,like Jesus.

4.The custom then was to put crucified criminels underground,in a common grave.

5.Yet Yehohanan was put in a cave,a tomb,following a religious custom,like Jesus.

It must be said that Flavius Josephus (37-100) has written that an exception was made in the case of Jerusalem,crucified Jews were allowed a decent burial,not to be dumped in a common grave.

What a Song!

It is “As the Deer”,based on Psalm 42:1-2,simply the best:

 

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