Daily Archives: April 11, 2010

More on Why Atheistic Scholars reject Shabir Ally's Arguments Against Jesus' Death

The first article on this is here:


Argument 4 of Shabir

“Crucifixion does not pierce any Vital Organs.”(to thus cause death)

He cites Catholic scholar Father Raymond Brown’s  “Death of the Messiah” where Brown states:

1.“Crucifixion pierces no vital organs”

2.And so we can’t know what really killed Jesus.

That is True but it is Also True 

1.Flogging pierces no vital organs either yet people can be flogged to death.

2.Stoning pierces no vital organs either,yet people die.

3.The same for a heart attack,no vital organs pierced.

Also Brown accepts the death of Jesus.We can’t know exactly what killed Jesus:if too much loss of blood,or heart attack,or lack of air,or shock,or all or a combination,but based on medical and scientific evidence he would have died.Shabir isn’t logical.

About Roman Military Customs

They were brutal,deadly.And not just in the military.We have:

1.In Acts 12:7-19 Peter is freed from prison by an angel and escapes.King Herod finds out and he orders the guards in charge to be executed.

2.In Acts 16:23-29 Paul is in prison and miraculously all the prison doors open and the man in charge of the prison thinks they have escaped and was about to kill himself when Paul stops him.Why kill himself?Because he would have been killed anyway,for letting a prisoner get out.

3.Petronius was a great Roman writer,the author of the first novel.He died about 64 AD,near Jesus’ time.His novel Satyricon has a story calld The Widow of EPHESUS.

It is about a beautiful widow decides to die with her husband’s body,not eating or drinking.She’s in a cave.A handsome Roman soldier who is in charge of a dead body of a crucified man(to make sure the body isn’t stolen)finds her and seduces her and they are happy together for several days.

The family of the crucified man steal the body,the soldier finds out and declares to her he will kill himself for the penalty was that he be crucified for letting the body be stolen.She say no and insead they hung the body of the dead husband on the cross and he is spared.

Pilate was told by the Centurion that Jesus was Dead

In Mark 15:44-45 that’s what happens.Pilate asks him if Jesus’ died.The centurion affirmed yes,he was taking responsibility for it.If later Jesus was proved to have survived the centurion would have been punished,most probably killed.HE knew the consequences of not making sure.Pilate was in effect saying to him:

“Ok,now you are taking the responsibility for this and you know what happens if he is still alive.”

It’s all these details scholars consider in the process called “going where the evidence leads.”

Argument 5

“In Antiquity there were Case of the Dead Waking from a Coma”

Shabir cited cases in Antiquity of apparently dead people coming back from a coma,etc,found in a scholarly book, in a debate with Michael Licona.True.But they:

1.Had not be been flogged.

2.They had not lost alot of blood.

3.They had not been crucified and suffered shock.

They are like people today who suffer a heart attack or brain hemorrage and apparently die,then come back from a coma.Today we have no crucifixions.Does Shabir make a comparative analysis of the 2 cases like an impartial scholar?No.

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